Hey guys, I have tested another FM 2013 tactic. I think we’ve found something special today but before the review lets re-cap the testing process
The testing procedure is quite simple: I will install the tactic and use it through pre-season plus six league matches with Spurs. Then I’ll watch each match closely, see what happens and come up with the best review I am capable of. I will also keep track of various statistics in order to be able to compare the essential numbers between this and other tactics that have been or will be analysed. It will be more or less like a benchmarking tool for FM 2013 tactics.
Today’s FM 2013 tactic review is on Karl’s 5-3-2 tactic, a defensively solid system including deadly counter attacking capabilities.
Formation
The formation is a 5-3-2, or 3-5-2 depending on how you see it. Built around a solid back three, the two wing backs offer cover down the wings as well as a major threat going forward. Your three MC’s will work hard all over the pitch, following play to either support your front two or form a protective wall in front of your back three. You then have one deep lying forward to support, connecting midfield to attack and a poacher to sit on the opposition shoulder, waiting for those through balls. This formation may seem too defensive, but its far from that.
Team Instructions
With such a defensive shape the fluid philosophy will offer some freedom to move on the break. Due to the many intricate patterns this formation can produce, a short passing style makes for some pretty movement and nice play. The defensive side of this tactic is solid and that’s aided by the deep defensive line, this helps create a real wall in your own half. Then when the ball is won back, you can attack down the wings at great pace due to the width and tempo settings. Your advanced playmaker will link up play and seeking out the DLF connects midfield to attack.
Average Positions
To look at the average positions you’d think this was a very narrow tactic, but in truth its not. The positions shown above represent the players while defending, the average amount of possession tends to lye with your opponents and that one stat is what makes this so effective.
The two outer CB’s cover for the wing backs, rushing out wide when needed so while it may seem as though attacks in behind and down the wing will hurt, they are actually very well covered. Another important fact is the DLF sits much deeper than the poacher, as shown in the screenshot above.
Defending
This tactic is designed to form a wall between your opposition and the goal. No matter what the scenario, you will be well covered. As shown above the three CB’s always hold a line, the two wing backs race back to help as do the three MC’s. This tactic offers a real team effort defensively. No matter where the ball is, it feels like your opponents get doubled up on.
Out wide your wing back is the first to be hit, if he’s beaten your outer CB can cover. In the centre there are three MC’s to beat, once past them theirs still three CB’s and the wing backs that have enough freedom to go narrow when needed. Look at the screenshot above, the wing backs have both the wide midfielders covered, the two MC’s are well outnumbered by my three and then Andy Carroll is left with the daunting task of beating three DC’s
Fact of the matter is, this works because the 5-3-2 reacts far quicker than any other tactic in defence, this FM13 tactic piles bodies back far better than any I’ve seen.
Attacking
Its all well and good been solid at the back, but if you have little going forward there’s no hope. Luckily that isn’t the case. Look at the screenshot above, this is a scenario I found my Spurs side in countless times. Again, the wing backs are vital and great attacking skills really make the difference, at times they act as wingers pushing further forward than even the most attacking MC.
The three central midfielders sit outside the box ready to slow any opposition counter attack in its tracks. While the two forwards tend to wait on the last defenders shoulder for any loose balls or through passes. The goal below highlights that and also shows off some of the intricate passing you can achieve.
Results
Probably the best results you could hope for bar one, the Sunderland game was a little bizarre. None of the players seemed up for it and this one result offers my only concern. If your forwards aren’t on song then this can come undone. However, we destroyed the rest and even limited Chelsea to one shot on target and zero clear cut chances, away from home!
Statistics
Goals scored: 15 (2.5 per game)
Goals conceded: 0 (nil per game)
Shots on target for: 8.5 per game
Shots on target against: 1.67 per game
Clear cut chances for: 1.67 per game
Clear cut chances against: 0.17 per game
Half chances for: 3.17 per game
Half chances against: 0.5 per game
Ball possession average: 48.33%
Now for my favorite part, the average match stats. This really does tell a story, let me point out the proof in the pudding, that this is an outstanding defensively sound tactic. During my six games, Spurs conceded an average of zero goals, that’s right, not a single goal conceded including a match away to Chelsea.
To cap that off our opposition couldn’t even manage an average of 2 shots on target nor 2 half chances and the clear cut chances were almost none existent from the opposition end, clear cut chances averaged a merely 0.17 per match.
Sure the average possession is a little underwhelming at 48.33% but I think this just adds to the power of the tactic. Its much easier to launch a counter attack and score, as opposed to hammering at a brick wall of 10 men camped in their own half. This theory is proven by the average of 2.5 goals per game and 3.17 half chances. This tactics quality is proven in the FM13 Tactics Index table, this is used to compare the stats from all our reviews and Karl’s 5-3-2 makes for some happy reading.
+
Excellent results.
Amazing defensive displays.
Outer CB’s cover the WB’s while opposition counter (as shown below.)
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Can struggle to break through sides that camp out in their own half.
May struggle for goals if both your strikers aren’t in form.
Suggested Tweaks
I really don’t feel right suggesting tweaks for this, its such an amazing tactic and making adjustments may detriment the way it works defensively. However, if you know your opponent will camp out in their half and build a wall between you and their goal, try changing the automatic MC to something more creative and attacking, maybe a box to box midfielder, it may also be worth pushing the defensive line up for those types of matches also.
FM 2013 Tactic Download
Download the 5-3-2 FM 2013 tactic by clicking on the image below:
After downloading the tactic follow these simple steps to install it in FM 2013:
1. Put the downloaded file into this folder: Documents>Sports Interactive>Football Manager 2013>tactics
2. Start your game and go to your team’s tactics screen.
3. Click on the little arrow located to the right of your starting tactic name, move your mouse cursor over “archived tactics” and select this tactic from the menu.
I hope you enjoyed this analysis, more importantly I hope this inspires you to continue my testing and I’m looking forward to your comments. Due to an excessive amount of tactics posted for review we will not be taking further entries for the time being, at least until we have dwindled down the backlog.
saltwater
23 марта, 2013 at 17:50
Definitely something special. It really is hard to find a really solid tactic that doesn’t neglect the offensive side, and this seems to do the job perfectly. I had a formation exactly like this but it never worked half as well, so congrats to Karl for tweaking this to perfection.
Darren Smith
23 марта, 2013 at 18:16
It certainly is special, I do think the wing backs are vital and the mix in the middle is important too, so your player selection needs to be right but its amazing if you get all the other aspects spot on.
Johnny Karp
23 марта, 2013 at 18:01
Definitely looks top quality, well done Karl!
Darren Smith
23 марта, 2013 at 18:16
Yep, great work Karl.
Tom Miller
23 марта, 2013 at 18:31
Any way to counter this? As im facing him in the fms competition lol :P
Darren Smith
23 марта, 2013 at 19:03
I think its more dangerous to adjust your own tactical plan that usually works TBH…but if I had to stop this I’d try using a counter orientated tactic, one that sits reasonably deep to soak up possession and draw players out of position before striking hard and fast at the spaces left. My advice, stick with your own tactic and see what happens in the first leg, if he just soaks up your attacks, then try been more defensive and lay deeper for the second leg maybe.
Karl Deighton
23 марта, 2013 at 19:18
I wouldn’t worry, I’m not using this tactic ;)
Darren Smith
23 марта, 2013 at 19:22
Haha, thats just crazy…we post the best tactic in terms of statistics that we’ve reviewed so far and you say you’re not even using it! I’d love to see the tactic that tops this one ;)
Karl Deighton
23 марта, 2013 at 19:32
It’s just a 4-1-2-2-1 tactic I created, I also used it with Bilbao, it seemed to suit Liverpool more when I started with them. I’ve done pretty well with it ;)
Karl Deighton
23 марта, 2013 at 19:30
Thanks for the review on my tactic,and the kind words about it, glad it did well.
When I created this I was Barcelona, and it worked brilliantly. I wasn’t sure if the tactic worked it it was just because I was Barca that we did well. But now I’ve tested it with a couple different teams and you have tested it I’m sure it’s a decent tactic ;)
And about the strikers, I did also find if they didn’t play well the team just seemed to shut down, but with Messi and Falcao up front that rarely happened :D
Darren Smith
23 марта, 2013 at 19:33
Yeah that was the only fault I could find really, the two forwards had to play fairly well. But provided you have good strikers and two good backups on the bench this should bring a lot of success.
Nick Sundin
23 марта, 2013 at 22:28
Ach, if only I didn’t have good wingers that I’d have to leave out. Like a lot of people, I’m intrigued by a three man defence, so I’ll give this a go in a few friendlies
Tirofijo
24 марта, 2013 at 21:21
Hey guys — sounds like a great tactic, but I’m confused about the download link… The tactic seems to be the same tactic that Karl posted (https://www.footballmanagerstory.com/forum/topic/799-fm-2013-tactic-the-5-3-2/) which is different from the one you reviewed…
The review has Fluid style, different mentality on the roles etc. Whereas the download has Balanced style, no playmaker etc (matching the forum post). Which version of the tactic was the testing done against? Obviously I can make the necessary changes, but seems that there are a couple of versions going around??
Darren Smith
24 марта, 2013 at 21:36
Sorry, I have changed the download link to the updated version, try downloading again.
PeeDub
25 марта, 2013 at 00:53
Dumb question. The tactics I downloaded do not exactly match your screenshots. For instance, both flanking CM’s in the tactic I downloaded have a support duties, not defend/auto. Also, all CD’s have CD role, no LD’s.
Did you make tweaks? What other tweaks?
PeeDub
25 марта, 2013 at 00:59
Hmm, just re-downloaded, and it’s a different tactic name now.
PeeDub
25 марта, 2013 at 00:59
Doh! Just saw the above comments! Never mind.
George T Dobson
27 марта, 2013 at 07:45
great tactic are any shouts that are used with this ?
Darren Smith
27 марта, 2013 at 11:49
I didn’t use any while testing and there seemed no need but only Karl could answer that.
SamyOli
2 апреля, 2013 at 19:42
Hey guys! This really seems a great tactic.
However, I have a question: I saw that the target man in the team instructions is the deep lying forward, shouldn’t be the poacher? Or is this on purpose?
Darren Smith
4 апреля, 2013 at 11:07
No that is on purpose, you want to hit the DLF to link up play, he drops deeper and can be picked out easier, whereas hitting the poacher wouldn’t work as well.
SamyOli
4 апреля, 2013 at 14:31
Makes perfect sense. Many thanks Darren!
Will definitively try this one in a new save I’m starting with Atletico de Madrid.
Kenneth Kupiec
6 апреля, 2013 at 10:18
Great tactic, finally i found one who can sloth right into Juventus :)
keep up the good work
Darren Smith
6 апреля, 2013 at 11:50
No problem, I think the review shows just how good it is but I’ve also used it with an under par Gateshead side to win the Championship and do OK in the EPL so it definitely works long term.
Cameron Moulton
23 апреля, 2013 at 07:32
Could you play a tactic like this in the blue square premier
Cameron Moulton
23 апреля, 2013 at 07:33
I mean a 3 at the back tactic
Darren Smith
23 апреля, 2013 at 12:09
I think you could yes, but you’d have to test it to be sure.
Steve
5 мая, 2013 at 05:52
Great review Darren. I want to use this tactic for my Luton side in League 2 but having read your guides for the lower leagues I have a few questions:
Should I change the strategy to balanced?
It sounds like counter attacking is quite a large part of this shape so would it help if that was ticked?
And if you pushed the defensive line higher would playing offside be wise or does that only really work with a flat back four?
Cheers
Darren Smith
5 мая, 2013 at 09:33
TBH I would just leave everything as it is, if the tactic works then don’t change it, just try it out and judge from results and performances what needs adjusting for your team.
matt
12 мая, 2013 at 04:28
hi,
nice to see a lot of tactics, i came across a pretty amazing formation very similar to this, 3 at the back, 2 wing backs and a defensive midfeilder three attacking midfeilders and a lone forward. i regulary get 30+ shots in a game, dominate possesion have no weakness defensively, it is important to have the right players for this formation especially the wing backs. another advantage of this is that it uses three attacking midfeilders which are often the most talented playetrs, it does lead to a lot of long shots, but with training on set peices this leads to lots of goals of corners in particular, my center back last season got i think double figures just in the league. if the opposition has only one forward it is useful to slip one of the centre backs into defensive midfeilder, if you wish to trial this just give me a shout, with newcastle i have won 6 leagues in a row 7 fa cups a couple of league cups, 2 champions league (to losses in finals after dominating- frustrating!) have used with other saves but as i say you need the players for it
Darren Smith
12 мая, 2013 at 10:15
Sounds very similar to this tactic we reviewed https://www.footballmanagerstory.com/2013/02/fm-2013-tactics-review-jake/ that one was very successful too.
matt
12 мая, 2013 at 15:20
yeah the basic formation is the same, although the style is very different.. play it with width+ more flexible etc changes the formation a lot, although i see that not too much point in testing it as it, cheers for the reply
VikingGunner
30 августа, 2013 at 04:44
Matt-
Would love to gave the opportunity to get the tactic you are describing above (specifically the tactic you describe as «3 at the back, 2 wing backs and a defensive midfielder three attacking midfielders and a lone forward» so I can give it a try with my own side.
Let me know if you can help me get this tactic.
Thanks a lot.
Noal
18 мая, 2013 at 06:41
I was eager to try this out with Arsenal, but in pre-season it didn’t seem to click. I think I should probably try it again and buy a player to fulfill the DLF role, as the creator said the strikers are key to making this work and Arsenal’s forwards don’t have high creativity (Podolski, Walcott and Giroud all seem to work best as poachers).
I did like how the wing backs played though. Jenkinson hugged the touchline and Monreal attacked the back post!
I’m still searching for the holy grail for Arsenal. The players not trusting their unproven manager doesn’t help mind :-D
Darren Smith
18 мая, 2013 at 14:19
I think expecting it to click so soon may be too eager…but as mentioned, every tactic requires the right players and as mentioned in this review as one of the negatives, if the strikers aren’t on form, scoring can be hard to come by. I’d maybe suggest making the suggested tweaks from this review and finding more rounded forwards like Jovetic.
Noal
21 мая, 2013 at 15:23
Yeah I really want it to work to be honest, I’ve been telling my mates that I think a 3-5-2/5-3-2 would work for Arsenal in real life, I’m out to prove a point.!
Steve
20 мая, 2013 at 09:37
Hi Darren
Why is the right of the 3 CB’s a limited defender? How does that fit into the tactic? I’m always unsure whether to change defenders from their usual CB position.
Thanks
Darren Smith
20 мая, 2013 at 11:59
You’d have to ask the author, I didn’t create the tactic so can’t talk about his logic with roles, I can only say it works and was probably used to fit an individual player, the central defender tends to play the ball more in attacking tactics whereas the limited defender will always look to hoof it clear.
Rob
30 мая, 2013 at 09:36
Nice tactic, is it right the cm (d) has run from deep often?
Darren Smith
30 мая, 2013 at 19:32
That is right Rob, seems weird I guess but chances are it was set to suit a player. Having said that I have Gateshead in the EPL with this tactic and Bostwick plays MC (d) so that explains how he’s scored so many goals arriving late onto the ball.
Chris
30 мая, 2013 at 14:52
When downloading this tactic, will all team instructions and individual player instructions be automatically set too? Or do I need to do this manually?
Darren Smith
30 мая, 2013 at 19:33
It will just download as per the tactics full settings Chris, no need to to touch anything afterwards.
Khoa Ngo
9 июня, 2013 at 17:15
is caulker deliberately set to limited defender? or was this just an accidental error?
Darren Smith
9 июня, 2013 at 17:43
Thats just how the tactic was sent to us, so I assume that role is set to suit a certain player in the authors team maybe.
Mike Dodgson
20 июня, 2013 at 15:13
When this was being tested were any Opposition Instructions used, or any shouts?
Cheers!
Darren Smith
20 июня, 2013 at 19:36
Assistant was instructed to set opposition instructions and there were no shouts used at all.
Mike Dodgson
21 июня, 2013 at 11:02
Thanks Darren,
Used it in the 2nd half of the season for Liverpool and got 3rd placed. 2nd season is off to a shaky start but haven’t been using Opposition Instructions — maybe that’s why.
Emil Mærsk
9 июля, 2013 at 01:42
Shouts???
Darren Smith
9 июля, 2013 at 12:16
didn’t use any during the testing stage, only the author could say whether he uses them in general, but I don’t see a need. If you’re using excessive shouts then it means your tactic isn’t working.
vulin
11 июля, 2013 at 12:45
what about training?
Darren Smith
11 июля, 2013 at 19:10
Training doesn’t change for tactics, it is always preset based on the players and how you want to prepare for an opponent or pre-season etc. I usually do heavy intensity and focus on team cohesion in pre-season with match training set to tactics only. I then change to balanced training and whatever my assistant recommends for match training throughout the season itself.
Pedro Mga
20 июля, 2013 at 19:24
So, Im loving this tactic, finished 3rd with Atalanta ; 7 points behind napoli.
my main problem is the lack of goals…. i wonder if this tactic will work if i change to «attacking» instead of controlling? what about making the WB with more creative freedom?
Darren Smith
20 июля, 2013 at 19:32
I would start by testing the attacking strategy and then see how it works, you’ll soon see if it works for the better or worse. Also the wing backs shouldn’t have creative freedom adjusted, there’s no real point as it wouldn’t make them more attacking, just give them freedom to wonder which you don’t really want in that position IMO.
waycool
15 августа, 2013 at 04:41
I used this played 5 gams . Game 1/lost 3-1 game 2/lost 2-0 game 3/WON 1-0 game 4/lost 2-1 game 5/draw 0-0 so this did not work for me.
compered to my own line up of 4-1-2-2-1 like the shape of a chiasms tree where I win on average 3-1 and have not lost a game for 172 games all competitions . Have won the premier league 6 times and the champions cup 4 times . I tried this to find a tactic that would not leek so many goals as I tend to not keep a clean sheet with my tactic . As on average I manage just 5-7 clean sheets all season.
will have to keep tweaking my own formation till I can keep more clean sheets .
Ian
17 августа, 2013 at 13:34
Hello there, I love the look of this tactic. Do you ever switch your strategy or philosophy away from home? It mind sound a daft question to even ask this, as I have just tested this tactic in my first game against Barcelona and I won 3-0 hahaha. Does the strategy and philosophy stay the same throughout? Thanks.
Darren Smith
17 августа, 2013 at 16:25
Stayed the same for me, I found the strategy needs to vary with the quality of your own team but not for been home or away.
VikingGunner
30 августа, 2013 at 04:09
matt-
Where is this tactic you use available for download?
Any chance you could send it to me or put it online for download?
The tactic sounds very intriguing and I’d like to give it a try for myself.
I’d appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks.
DUFC
31 августа, 2013 at 19:02
Any suggestions if my two strikers are not in form? Or is it just a waiting game from there?
Darren Smith
31 августа, 2013 at 19:10
Depends on so many different things, but if you have only allowed 4 games or so then you need to give them more time. Otherwise it could be the players don’t suit the roles/tactic.
Alex.
1 октября, 2013 at 08:32
this is the best tactics, i used for my liverpool, i win the premier league in first season.
this is what playing liverpool in this days. :)
Darren Smith
1 октября, 2013 at 11:33
I’ve enjoyed some real success too, namely with Gateshead.
Alex.
1 октября, 2013 at 13:02
I created and I search tactics, but nothing is like this, good luck with Gateshead. :)
Rick
12 ноября, 2013 at 08:11
Hi, I really liked this tactic on FM13 and tried to replicate it on 14′ but without much success. any chance you could do an updated version?
Darren Smith
12 ноября, 2013 at 11:44
There is no such thing as an updated version I’m afraid, the tactics system has changed so much since the new game. But I’m sure we can try at some point, so far doesn’t work though. Whether thats because SI found flaws that made such a tactic work and fixed them or whether the lack of freedom with the new tactics system doesn’t help I’m not sure.
Beth Evans
6 мая, 2014 at 14:12
Would it be any better to have the advanced playmaker in the am postion istead of the cm?
Darren Smith
6 мая, 2014 at 19:13
I haven’t tried that so couldn’t say.
walcotteric
26 июня, 2014 at 19:58
Are there specific touchline instructions you used, or would suggest using with this?
Darren Smith
26 июня, 2014 at 21:20
I haven’t played FM13 and used this for almost a year so can’t rely remember but I don’t think I used any touchline shouts while testing.